more cencorship

[BeeSting]

Grantus,,,,I'll tell you where this is coming from.

A few weeks ago I was asked why I became a helper.
My reply was that I became a helper because I enjoyed playing poker with my friends for pretend chips as though it was the real thing.
As a result of this reply, I was relieved of my helper duties.
Anyone with a modicum of intelligence could've read between the lines of what I was saying.
All I have ever tried to do is uphold the very ethos of TJ, play for fun but play like it's real money,and respect the people that you are playing with.
ie. don't go all in every hand and don't play like a jerk.
I also commented upon the dross that was constantly rolled out on the helper channel. I said that I was sick and tired of the constant sycophantic attitude of the majority of helpers(as is apparent by some of the posts in this forum). Surely any intelligent admin can see that the majority of what is said on the helper channel is said in order to suck up to you?
I find it incredible that people elected to do a job of immense responsibility can act in such an irresponsible manner.
Why are people that need to ask if someone is behaving badly, made helpers?
I guarantee that if you asked every helper why they were a helper and they told you the real truth, the majority would say 'so I can be an admin one day.'
I know that you will call me a cynic, but ask yourself the real reason that they behave in such a blatantly sycophantic way.
I know that I'm old enough and wise enough to know the difference between what is right and what is wrong.
I don't need to be told how to behave by anyone.
I try to excel in everything I do and I know that I've excelled in making the rooms in which my friends and I play in, the best rooms on TJ.
Ask them if I know how to conduct myself.
Ask them if I have tried to make TJ a better place to play.
Ask them if they think the administrative system of TJ has let them down.
Ask them what they think, if you listen to them I guarantee that your job will be made easier.
Ultimately and in response to your question Grantus,
the last time I voiced a similar message, it was removed from the forum.
I will always conduct myself in an appropriate manner and I will always encourage others to do the same, it's a shame that my detractors criticise me for doing so.
What are you scared of?

I have enjoyed reading how you use a sophisticated form of writing to make yourself sound like a victim.

There is nothing wrong with giving an opinion as long as you present your argument in a mature manner and as long as you use the proper channels.

This is not a dictatorship as you appear to portray us, we welcome helpers asking for advice and help (I would rather they do that then go about things in completely the wrong way). You also seem to misunderstand what a helpers role is - a helper isn't there to administer punishments and control behaviour - though they have some tools to aid with minor issues - admins are there to deal with behaviour, a helper is there to guide and help players who need it.

They were not chosen for it to be a gateway to adminship (and remember they were chosen by admins they didn't make themselves helpers) they were chosen as they have repeatedly shown themselves to be a reliable, pleasant and helpful within the game, these are qualities which you failed to possess on occasions. Your attitude, mannerism and the way you treated fellow helpers (which was appalling and degrading) is the reason you were demoted - not because you voiced an opinion.

All I have ever tried to do is uphold the very ethos of TJ, play for fun but play like it's real money,and respect the people that you are playing with.
ie. don't go all in every hand and don't play like a jerk.

If you had truly followed this then you would still be helper today, but unfortunately you didn't show respect to your fellow helpers. Now all I can suggest is for you to just have fun with what you did before you became helper - which is to play well and take part in the community.

You are entitled to your opinion and I can understand why you are bitter to have to write in the way that you have, but the decision was made to demote you which I fully support.

[f1indica]

OMG
I just read some of the comments again.

Lets see if we can spot the admin wannabees

What is your problem??????

Do you not have the guts to say what you really want to say?????????

Or do you say what you think they want to hear???????

If you think that what you are saying is the right thing to say then I hope you get out of it what you want.

I must be very lucky that I have a mind of my own.

Some of you clearly don't.

1 + 2 *3 = 7

or is it 1+2*3=9

the intelligent ones will get it right

[f1indica]

so beesting,,,,
you didnt treat your helper position as a gateway to adminship???

you were one of the most sycophantic and pathetic helpers around!!!!!!!!!

you constantly sought conformation as to whether you were doing the right thing or not,,,,

[f1indica]

lets debate beesting

you and me

[f1indica]

im off to bed beesting

i really hope that we can talk about this face to face sometime.

you just carry on towing the corporate line in the mean time

[kiza]

BeeSting was Never a helper...she has Always been ADMIN, a very good admin at that. Maybe you should know stuff before you start running your mouth, and stop trying to stir and cause trouble.

[BeeSting]

so beesting,,,,
you didnt treat your helper position as a gateway to adminship???

you were one of the most sycophantic and pathetic helpers around!!!!!!!!!

you constantly sought conformation as to whether you were doing the right thing or not,,,,

Why thank you for such an enlightened view (sarcasm)

As Kiza has said I've never been a helper, I've been as admin for many many years - even before Rockworker and he's an old one. Also I rarely seek conformation as to whether I'm doing the right thing or not, yes there are times when I have asked for advice from my fellow admins as to how they would deal with a situation but there is nothing wrong with that. (Oh and a little fact about me - just to give you something that is actually true - I never sought to be an admin in fact the first time I was asked I turned it down. Yes as an admin I've made mistakes and yes at first I didn't know what I was doing at times. But I have been here long enough to say I do not take this position to abuse it, I do it because I generally want to make this site better. Oh and one more thing - many admins on here will tell you I will say what I think no matter how blunt it is).

I am also someone who rarely uses the helper channel, I read it in case a helper needs an admin to assist them - but I don't use it to chat. I actually think a lot of helpers don't even know I'm around.

However what this post has shown is that you write with intelligence - however you do not use intelligence in your content. If you want to debate things in a mature and researched way then by all means do.

It is this very procise attitude that got you demoted, and I hope at some point you will either drop this issue or you will take some time to think clearly about how you are going to respond.

Beesting

P.S the answer is 7 but I'm not sure how that measures intelligence, but since it is right I must be intelligent so thank you for confirming it

P.P.S Thank you Kiza for the kind words

[grantus]

Yes, I have been playing here for a good three years, and BeeSting was an admin before I was even around. BeeSting is a highly respected admin and has always conducted herself beautifully, and truthfully.

She is without a doubt one of THE best admins on this website.



Now please, Mencius.
Please use some intelligence and see that you are not a victim here. Everyone here, admins and Helpers alike have given you a chance to prove yourself as a Helper. You ruined your chance, with this precise behaviour, your time as a Helper is over.

And I'll also repeat, Helper status is NOT a gateway to Adminship, that is rediculous. As BeeSting correctly stated, Helpers are here to HELP and guide players, whereas ADMINS are here for behavioural issues, and the more technical, deeper side of help and support.



I also, hope you will soon come to see how incorrect your statements of your arguement have become, Mencius, and I also hope you will drop it, before you step right out of line causing the thread to be locked.


Thank you, and Goodluck on the tables.
Grantus.

P.S- the answer most certainly IS 7, thank you for confirming my intelligence as well!

[VANILLA_nick]

The answer is 9 + 7. Which is that Mencius should run for some sort of government office. He could use this as part of his resume.

[f1indica]

i apologise, i mistook her for someone else. i looked at the 'bee' and missed the 'sting

i find this a most emotive subject, unfortunately my emotions obviously impaired my ability to recognise a name.

please accept my most sincere apology honeybee.

[f1indica]

have i really blown my chance?

what chance have i blown???

why do you want to treat people as though they are naughty schoolboys?

treat people like adults and you will encourage adult behaviour.

i'm going to tell you a story now, and this story will hopefully enlighten the people that are able to read between the lines. it will also upset someone that i care dearly for and that person should know that i love her dearly and that i would never hold anything against her, even though i feel that i have been let down in the most horrendous way.

if this post is removed then it will quantify my perception that the administration of this site only listen to things that are politically correct.

once upon a time i befriended an admin. that admin made the place that my friends and i played in, the most pleasurable place you could ever wish to be.
nobody dared step out of line in our rooms, the rules were adhered to.
as our rooms became better places to play, more people joined in with the ethos that we enjoyed.
the reason that our rooms became popular was that the admin that backed me up, supported what i was trying to acheive.
27 rooms became the most popular rooms on tj.
i really don't know what you became scared of.
clan 27 rooms were always packed to the rafters.
surely this was what you wanted.
surely this is what tj needed, more subscriptions.
just take a look at how many people subscribed as a result of 27.
sadly, these rooms are empty now.
27 clan is no more.
a lot of good people no longer play this site as regularly as they did because of the administration and the way that the administration treated them.
why do the admins feel the need to treat people like naughty schoolkids?
clan 27 personified the very ethos of tj, and the admin that i befriended will confirm this.
ask the question zen
do you want a legion of people that are unable to think for themselves?
do you want a legion of people that really are unable to make an intelligent decision for themselves?
or do you want people that are willing to make a difference to the way that your site is run?
i applaud your site, it is pure genious.
it is a real shame that the administration is a total farce.
i'm here to make a difference, most of the people that i represent will confirm this.
its a shame that some of your admins,,,,,,,,,,,except one in particular( if she has the balls to back me ),,,,,,don't agree
please take note zen
people are scared to say what they want to say,
some of your admins lack the intelligence to debate,
it is their way or no way
this is no way to run a site
run it with the help of intelligent people, not bullies that demand total obedience
you are obviously an intelligent person, please recognise that some of the folks that you choose to administer your site do so for their own self gratification and not for the good of your site.
everything that clan27 did was for the good of your site.
please ask the admin that i referred to earlier for conformation.
all i ever did was try to make your site a better place.
ask around,
people will agree

[ILovekatyperry]

Me being the hormonal teenage boy i am i say what i think and i may not be the most liked for it but i would rather do that then be false.I have never had a major problem with an admin or helper on this site and and i believe i have been here long enough to make opinions of them for myself and i havent witnessed any wrong doings by them after all a helper is there to help the players and a admin is there to administrate the site not to make friends.

Ok here goes im going to say what i think (yes it is possible on this sit menc) i think that this post is a load of garbage and the admins have posted on this and handled it properly but you wont let it go.I know i have no business in telling you this but move on menc what good is writing forums slamming helpers and admins doing you? You've thrown away your chance as a helper does it really matter? not really you can still go on helping people the way you did before you were made a helper.

I would also like to say the majority of my friends are either helpers or admins and they are all lovely and that i find them all very helpul when somebody comes in needing it. is that not what a HELPer is? and is there anything wrong with seeking advice before doing something from somebody who has experience in doing it? I know if im at work and im not sure what to do i ask them rather than do it and make a fool of myself.

please take note zen
people are scared to say what they want to say,
some of your admins lack the intelligence to debate,
it is their way or no way
this is no way to run a site
run it with the help of intelligent people, not bullies that demand total obedience
you are obviously an intelligent person, please recognise that some of the folks that you choose to administer your site do so for their own self gratification and not for the good of your site.

ok now this statement is crap im not scared to say what i think and i can name many people willing to say what they want.
If an Admin lacked intelligence then how did they get picked?zen does randomly go hmmmm hey do you want to be an admin i like your meez?
What to admins have to gain from adminisring the site for their own good?they cant any higher up can they? admins are scrutinised all the time for no reason because some people cant accept they did something wrong.

[Rick]

Thank you j_unitette

As admins we volunteer our time within TJ to protect the people who play here from those who try to ruin their enjoyment of the game.

Zen, SuperChicken, and Viday have set high standards for helpers, and even higher standards for admins. They realize we can make the difference on whether people return to play here or move on. And whether people return has a big impact on the overall viability of TJ.

I must say as an admin it is difficult to read "admin abuse" forum posts. Replying to such posts won't mean much to new players who haven't been here long enough to form their own opinion of how well admins perform their tasks.

That is why it is so gratifying to read posts by players who defend helpers and admins. As an admin it is a satisfying feeling to stand up for players in the game, it is even more satisfying to see players stand up for admins in the public forums. Especially after dealing with the daily frustration of difficult, abusive, players.

It's great to hear our efforts are appreciated.

[BeeSting]

i apologise, i mistook her for someone else. i looked at the 'bee' and missed the 'sting

i find this a most emotive subject, unfortunately my emotions obviously impaired my ability to recognise a name.

please accept my most sincere apology honeybee.

BTW my name isn't honeybee. BeeSting and honeybee are spelt very differently.

I am more than willing to debate this topic if it was presented in a more mature and adult manner. Your first few posts are written with sophistacation and it would seem that you also wrote with intelligence - even if I do not agree with what you wrote. However as this thread continues you write with less and less sophistacation and intelligence.

The views that I have wrote are my own views, they have not been written because I'm unable to think for myself, nor is it written because I'm unable to make an intelligent decision for myself. I replied to your post with my own views as it incencsed me that someone who treated fellow helpers in a derogatory and condescending manner could then go and complain the way you have.

You critiscised helpers because they ask for help or advice, you critiscise people for not thinking for themselves, however I would rather a helper ask for advice then to make a rash or wrong decision because they didn't ask for help when they needed it (making situations worse).

But it also seems that in some ways you are a hypocrit, when others have replied to your posts and haven't agreed with your views you ask what people are scared of, why are they scared of telling the "truth", why are they not intelligent enough to think for themselves. In other words people are to agree with what you say or they are showing they are not intelligent enough?? I may be mistaken about your meanings however that is currently how your post reads.

I think I have shown that I can debate this topic with intelligence and grace, however you haven't shown this. Your arguments are going around in circles, you are being too stubborn to recognise that people who have replied are speaking their own views.

Noone has suggested that clan 27 was not a good group of people (many of the clan actually became helpers) - but I think I should point out that 27 clan is no more not because of admins on this site but because the leader of the clan disbanded it.

You claim that all you ever did was to make the site a better place yet you critiscised people who asked for help so that they can do the same thing (different people have different ways of dealing with situations, some ask for help and guidance some just do something).

I would consider myself and the other admins and helpers intelligent, we do not demand total obedience but we do expect basic rules and manners to be adhered to, and unfortunately you lacked the respect and manners for you to have carried out your helper duties effectively.

I am, like Rick, incredibly pleased to see people show their support for admins and helpers, surely if we were doing that bad a job we would see a lot more people supporting your views then we do at the moment.

I hope you use some of the intelligence, that you claim to have, to read these posts carefully, and if you must then please construct an argument that properly thought out.

[ILovekatyperry]

I like to give credit where credit is due and the admins and helpers on this site sure do deserve credit(not abuse) and i dont see it shown enough i have been called a admin wannabee and a suck up but all im doing is expressing my feelings of respect for these great people who make this site what it is today and if it wasnt for them you wouldnt have that great honour of playing here.

My best friend happens to be an admin and the person who got me hooked on this site(your paying for it if i fail school man ) and this may be the reason why i feel this way.Ive seen first hand the way admins handle situations in avery mature manner and ive also seen the unfair slander they cop for enforcing the very fair rules of the site.

well im going to stop blabbing on now i guess i should get some sleep seeming its midnight and i gotta get up at 7am(going to put some money into the communities that lost alot during our tragic bushfires by that i mean im buying food from there local shops but i guess it still puts economy into the town)